In my high school, there were too many fights and too much chaos for me to think that there would be good outcomes with arming teachers. Particularly if the problem itself (school spree shootings) is so inordinately small. I think rural schools with redneck problems might be better suited to redneck solutions. My high school was the opposite school with the opposite problems.
In my high school, there were too many fights and too much chaos for me to think that there would be good outcomes with arming teachers. Particularly if the problem itself (school spree shootings) is so inordinately small. I think rural schools with redneck problems might be better suited to redneck solutions. My high school was the opposite school with the opposite problems.
That’s a reasonable point. In my school, teachers were virtually never involved in fights. And fights between students broke up the moment a teacher appeared. Certainly, an armed teacher should be very, very reluctant to enter into a physical altercation unless deadly force was already in play.
Basic concealed weapons courses teach you of the importance of avoiding fights entirely, due to the risk of escalation—if not by the gun carrier, then when the other combatant grabs you around the waist and discovers the gun. The same would have to be taught to armed teachers: Don’t get into a fist fight or a wrestling match between students. You and your gun are there to counter lethal threats (or threats of great bodily harm) only. You do not pull your gun to stop a fist-fight.
I completely agree that a school where student-teacher combat is common is probably not a good test site for the armed-teacher experiment. I would conduct the experiment with selected schools and selected teachers, which limits the ability to generalize the results, but it would allow the identification of some strengths and weaknesses of such a program. I know a number of teachers who are sober and responsible enough to handle the duty. And, again, it is better than being a meat shield. Now that some schools have implemented such programs, we will see…although the statistical rarity of such events will limit what and how quickly we learn.
Anyway, thanks for a thoughtful and thought-provoking article.
Urban high schools seem to be at somewhere around zero risk for a mass shooting, for a set of well defined reasons, so not much benefit is going to be realized with arming staff past the cops and SROs that are already there for urban school reasons.
This, too, is a good point. Violent, urban schools which already have a significant police presence are probably at lower risk for random, mass shootings (other than gang/drug violence). But, I would like to know if that is so. Suburban schools with less endemic student violence are better candidates for an armed-teacher program.
HWFO, I don't frame this as "arming teachers." Rather, my stance on this is "Stop preventing responsible adults from protecting themselves and others; y'know, like at the grocery store?"
Until you've seen an urban high school from the inside, don't project your experiences into that environment. It's closer to an open-doored jail than it is a university.
I will defer to your experience here. I was not thinking about any specific subset of school, but the specific subset of responsible American adult who is competent to carry and use a firearm. Some of these folks choose the career of teacher. I'm not convinced that preventing these adults from protecting themselves and children (like I would do in my local grocery store if necessary), should lose that right to protection simply because they're inside a structure named "school."
And as a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom myself, I totally agree that a bunch of us sitting outside schools with Hawiian shirts and slung rifles would be a very strong deterrant.
Yeah, this is my take. My ... ex-brother-in-law (how's that for an awkward construction?) is a current 4th grade teacher, and a former United States Marine.
It's flatly absurd that he can't have a CCW on him in case of emergency.
In my high school, there were too many fights and too much chaos for me to think that there would be good outcomes with arming teachers. Particularly if the problem itself (school spree shootings) is so inordinately small. I think rural schools with redneck problems might be better suited to redneck solutions. My high school was the opposite school with the opposite problems.
That’s a reasonable point. In my school, teachers were virtually never involved in fights. And fights between students broke up the moment a teacher appeared. Certainly, an armed teacher should be very, very reluctant to enter into a physical altercation unless deadly force was already in play.
Basic concealed weapons courses teach you of the importance of avoiding fights entirely, due to the risk of escalation—if not by the gun carrier, then when the other combatant grabs you around the waist and discovers the gun. The same would have to be taught to armed teachers: Don’t get into a fist fight or a wrestling match between students. You and your gun are there to counter lethal threats (or threats of great bodily harm) only. You do not pull your gun to stop a fist-fight.
I completely agree that a school where student-teacher combat is common is probably not a good test site for the armed-teacher experiment. I would conduct the experiment with selected schools and selected teachers, which limits the ability to generalize the results, but it would allow the identification of some strengths and weaknesses of such a program. I know a number of teachers who are sober and responsible enough to handle the duty. And, again, it is better than being a meat shield. Now that some schools have implemented such programs, we will see…although the statistical rarity of such events will limit what and how quickly we learn.
Anyway, thanks for a thoughtful and thought-provoking article.
Urban high schools seem to be at somewhere around zero risk for a mass shooting, for a set of well defined reasons, so not much benefit is going to be realized with arming staff past the cops and SROs that are already there for urban school reasons.
This, too, is a good point. Violent, urban schools which already have a significant police presence are probably at lower risk for random, mass shootings (other than gang/drug violence). But, I would like to know if that is so. Suburban schools with less endemic student violence are better candidates for an armed-teacher program.
I went to a rural school with two SROs, is that not common? I assumed that was standard
Happens at high schools but is rare in K-8. High schools are big and SROs are thinly spread. See Columbine.
HWFO, I don't frame this as "arming teachers." Rather, my stance on this is "Stop preventing responsible adults from protecting themselves and others; y'know, like at the grocery store?"
Furthermore, the foreknowledge that responsible adults at the school may or may not be armed would provide the same deterrent that (likely) prevents many mass shootings in public places in Texas. https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/texas-school-districts-no-nonsense-message
Until you've seen an urban high school from the inside, don't project your experiences into that environment. It's closer to an open-doored jail than it is a university.
I will defer to your experience here. I was not thinking about any specific subset of school, but the specific subset of responsible American adult who is competent to carry and use a firearm. Some of these folks choose the career of teacher. I'm not convinced that preventing these adults from protecting themselves and children (like I would do in my local grocery store if necessary), should lose that right to protection simply because they're inside a structure named "school."
And as a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom myself, I totally agree that a bunch of us sitting outside schools with Hawiian shirts and slung rifles would be a very strong deterrant.
Yeah, this is my take. My ... ex-brother-in-law (how's that for an awkward construction?) is a current 4th grade teacher, and a former United States Marine.
It's flatly absurd that he can't have a CCW on him in case of emergency.
Proper construction brother-outlaw.
“Redneck problems “?
Typically these incidents are in suburban areas or small towns.