"Whether we call that “culture war” or we call it “waging war on culture war by using the modes of culture war” is in the end, I think, semantic."

Just creating another culture in the war between cultures.

Reminds me of XKCD #927: https://xkcd.com/927/

Also, being from the Libertarian bent myself and feeling like it is something of a "culture trying to supplant two dominant cultures," such a transcendent culture is also met with as much, if not more hostility from both existent cultures. Don't be surprised if the Game A players put aside their differences to nip Game B in the bud before resuming the already scheduled culture war.

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re: HWFO-vs-Game~B for dummies?

I got about 2/3 through that (while overlapping my lunch coma/nap time) and it go too convoluted to follow, at least in one reading. I fizzled out trying to wrap my head around your basic difference. Maybe you can try to summarize that to help people get to the nuances?

My guess is that Hall's idea that a conflict-transcending Game~B (Kegan Stage 5), "planetary" culture seems too utopian-hippy-new-age-california-ish? (see the excerpts from Ronfeldt on his TIMN model, in a separate comment.)

From the part I did read a few minor data points:


In Henrich's "WEIRD" model of the evolution of modern culture, the ban on cousin marriage by the early church (to break the power of clans - Game Dunbar) led to increased genetic variation and thus a bunch of complex feedback loops between co-emergent elements of what became liberal-capitalist-modernism that selected for higher IQ and "liberal personality traits". As time went by from about 500 AD to 1500 AD, the (agrarian-oral) feudal oath-bound loyalty system gave way to (urban-literate) modern-rationalist, high-social-trust institutions and "WEIRD" culture.

Jordan Hall mentioned Holland as being a crucial example of more pure WEIRD. This is one explanation of the genetics and history of super-WEIRD Holland:



Henrich on WEIRD: https://weirdpeople.fas.harvard.edu/


In case you missed it, Jordan Hall had a discussion a while ago with John Vervaeke (cognitive scientist) about "The Religion Of No Religion" (on YouTube) which got down to the nuts and bolts of how to scale the Sam Harris type "solution".

iirc, Vervaeke published an article and/or interview on Stoa about that, having some kind of reference to Stoicism, a couple of years ago or more.

As far as I know, neither Hall or Vervaeke* has actually tried to create a new non-religion of that kind in a community setting, rather they are working out the theory required. Hall was talking about setting up an intentional community, school and research facility for a while, and then he RV'd around for a while looking, but nothing seems to have solidified.

As a side note: I would never compare JH (good) to Ken Wilber (bad in many ways), but KW tried to launch a more grand version of something like that in the late 90s, but it flopped and devolved into the current "Integral, Inc." project, which is mostly about generating enough cash flow from selling self-help stuff to keep funding more esoteric consciousness raising activities and theoretical projects.

* other than Vervaeke's extensive online course series on the "Sense Making Crisis"

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