Oh, and the obvious unspoken part: the study was pushed by green energy electric stove advocates.
"A recent study that linked gas-burning stoves to childhood asthma cases was backed by two nonprofits that are pushing for Americans to adopt electric stoves.
The study, which states that the stoves account for about 12.7% of childhood asthma cases in the U.S., was partly funded by RMI, a group that seeks to “accelerate the clean energy transition,” and co-authored by Brady Seals, the manager of RMI’s Carbon-Free Buildings arm that aims to retrofit buildings with electric appliances. The study was also co-authored by Rewiring America (RA) Research Associate Talor Gruenwald, who previously worked on RMI’s Carbon-Free Buildings team; RA is a nonprofit that is “focused on electrifying everything” in communities across America, accordingto its website.
The authors of the study declared that there were no conflicts of interest associated with their research.
RMI, which used the study to promote stove electrification, has received millions in donations from Breakthrough Energy, a green energy investment firm founded by Bill Gates, as well as the Bezos Earth Fund and Bloomberg Philanthropies, according to the RMI 2022 donors report."
Though I haven't been following this issue, so I'm not even sure what the debate is about. Democrats want me to get rid of my gas stove and buy an electric stove, which will probably run on electricity made by natural gas, except that much of the heat that could have just been used directly for cooking will be lost in conversion to electricity?
And now, the mainstream media view courtesy of the Boston Globe:
"Happy new year, Into the Red readers,
"I can't believe we live in a world where a tweet that reads "God. Guns. Gas stoves" can go viral.
"Last week, I uncovered a new study on the children's asthma risk posed by gas stove exposure, and I hoped readers would take note of the worrying data. I mean, the authors concluded the risk of exposure to gas stoves is comparable to that of exposure to secondhand smoke. But I didn't expect my story — some of the very first reporting done on the new report — would fuel the culture war of the week. Go beyond the political skirmishes and read about the report from me here."
"Uncovered," mind you, because the authors were trying hard to keep the study secret one must guess.
This furor was started by a statement by one member of a four member committee, and the chair of the committee qualified that it had no intention of recommending a ban on gas stoves as a result of the study. I did note though that gas stoves have been brought up in several older studies as a point of concern. So it’s something to watch, yes, maybe but no need to get excited at this point. We’ll see.
I don’t claim to understand the statistics of this analysis, but I did read through the entire study. It was a meta analysis and so based on data and/or results from different studies. In the method section I see they did not use at least three studies because of the impact of outdoor pollution. So it was at least taken into consideration. Also the study focused on NO2.
“The concentrations of indoor NO2 in some studies were clearly dominated by traffic outdoors, because the percentage of study homes with household gas stoves was small; we excluded those studies as well.”
I like to read the comment sections of these papers, where other statisticians/epidemiologists pick apart the studies. Haven’t had time to find comments on this one.
I notice I am confused. I've looked around a bit on the website for the "county health rankings" mentioned as the source for the main graphic here, and their data collection for air pollution doesn't appear to do any kind of discrimination between, as it were, natural and artificial sources. I am wondering if the entire thing is heavily confounded by pollen counts or something of the like, which is the only reason coming to mind for why the Illinois-Indiana-Ohio area is apparently the most heavily polluted part of the country.
I live in Indiana. Have for most of my life. It is heavily rural/agricultural outside of the few large cities we have, with little heavy industry, and yet the whole state somehow ends up having more air pollution than some of the largest cities in the nation? It doesn't follow.
Even if everything you say about this particular study is true, there are other reasons to think that gas stoves fundamentally change the indoor climate — and not for the better. We don't have great data on it, because indoor air quality is almost entirely unregulated and wildly under-studied in the U.S. But what few controlled experiments have been done suggest exactly what an ordinary person might expect: open-air gas combustion in the main living space of an enclosed home, often without sufficient ventilation, generates asthma-linked pollution. It's not really that controversial a proposition. (See: https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/indoor-air-quality/is-your-gas-range-a-health-risk-a6971504915/)
Sure, you can argue that the world is full of bigger problems — and I would agree! And the dearth of solid, evidence-based, real-world data is shameful. But if a lucrative wager hinged on whether gas stoves have the potential to worsen childhood asthma, I know where I'd put my money.
Something else missing, especially with stovetop cooking, is that cooking the food itself releases all sort of stuff. If oils are used - same thing. Some oils smoke at lower temperatures than others, yada yada. So all this is *still* present with electric cooking.
Also I’ve traveled all over Latin America. Electric stoves are extremely rare. At least in Mexico this was due to the high costs of electricity. So most households, which previously used wood for cooking (often indoors- and this is still common in other parts of LATAM) use gas stoves. There too dedicated gas lines are fairly rare so gas is delivered via tanker trucks to tanks on the roofs of homes. One would think given all the research there would be something about high childhood asthma rates in these areas.
So, their claim is that the combustion of the gas itself (CH4 + O2 -> CO2 + H2O) results in some NOX emissions as well. What’s the chemical process producing that? I want these clowns to break this down in an easy enough format for someone whose only taken high a high chemistry can understand.
Also worth noting, San Diego on your list last summer as part of their second edition Climate Action Plan will not only require all new construction to be all electric but that the majority of existing buildings be retrofit (regardless of left over service life on these nat gas appliances) to all electric by 2035.
The “science” they cited for part of their justification for this ban goes to websites and links that don’t back their claims.
In fairness, this is the same crap they have done for 2 decades with "climate science". One could probably sub in any of the nonsense studies they have pooped out the last decade built on "models" from garbage data.
"Most rural houses have electric stoves, and most rural houses have less particulate pollution, leading to less asthma. " Seriously? Provide data please, or I guess it depends how you define "rural". Because real rural often means nearly fully off the grid, which implies a wood or coal burning stove. And oil, coal, or wood heat. All of which throw off a lot more particulates than a gas stove. And the whole situation can be almost fully resolved if you put in a fan or a range hood in your kitchen that vents to the outside.
The Gas Stove Asthma Lie
"Until someone does that, all this freakoutery about gas stoves can and should be completely ignored."
...Except it can't be ignored, because the enstupidiated in Congress are going to make law based upon flawed data. For the children, of course.
Oh, and the obvious unspoken part: the study was pushed by green energy electric stove advocates.
"A recent study that linked gas-burning stoves to childhood asthma cases was backed by two nonprofits that are pushing for Americans to adopt electric stoves.
The study, which states that the stoves account for about 12.7% of childhood asthma cases in the U.S., was partly funded by RMI, a group that seeks to “accelerate the clean energy transition,” and co-authored by Brady Seals, the manager of RMI’s Carbon-Free Buildings arm that aims to retrofit buildings with electric appliances. The study was also co-authored by Rewiring America (RA) Research Associate Talor Gruenwald, who previously worked on RMI’s Carbon-Free Buildings team; RA is a nonprofit that is “focused on electrifying everything” in communities across America, accordingto its website.
The authors of the study declared that there were no conflicts of interest associated with their research.
RMI, which used the study to promote stove electrification, has received millions in donations from Breakthrough Energy, a green energy investment firm founded by Bill Gates, as well as the Bezos Earth Fund and Bloomberg Philanthropies, according to the RMI 2022 donors report."
https://www.shorenewsnetwork.com/2023/01/13/electric-appliance-advocates-backed-study-driving-push-to-ban-gas-stoves/
SSDD, same old One World elitist socialists, still trying to destroy our world to build their own micro-utopia on your suffering.
Great article.
Though I haven't been following this issue, so I'm not even sure what the debate is about. Democrats want me to get rid of my gas stove and buy an electric stove, which will probably run on electricity made by natural gas, except that much of the heat that could have just been used directly for cooking will be lost in conversion to electricity?
I Fucking Love Science Except When It Contradicts My Preferred Narrative!
And now, the mainstream media view courtesy of the Boston Globe:
"Happy new year, Into the Red readers,
"I can't believe we live in a world where a tweet that reads "God. Guns. Gas stoves" can go viral.
"Last week, I uncovered a new study on the children's asthma risk posed by gas stove exposure, and I hoped readers would take note of the worrying data. I mean, the authors concluded the risk of exposure to gas stoves is comparable to that of exposure to secondhand smoke. But I didn't expect my story — some of the very first reporting done on the new report — would fuel the culture war of the week. Go beyond the political skirmishes and read about the report from me here."
"Uncovered," mind you, because the authors were trying hard to keep the study secret one must guess.
WTF has journalism become?
This furor was started by a statement by one member of a four member committee, and the chair of the committee qualified that it had no intention of recommending a ban on gas stoves as a result of the study. I did note though that gas stoves have been brought up in several older studies as a point of concern. So it’s something to watch, yes, maybe but no need to get excited at this point. We’ll see.
I don’t claim to understand the statistics of this analysis, but I did read through the entire study. It was a meta analysis and so based on data and/or results from different studies. In the method section I see they did not use at least three studies because of the impact of outdoor pollution. So it was at least taken into consideration. Also the study focused on NO2.
“The concentrations of indoor NO2 in some studies were clearly dominated by traffic outdoors, because the percentage of study homes with household gas stoves was small; we excluded those studies as well.”
I like to read the comment sections of these papers, where other statisticians/epidemiologists pick apart the studies. Haven’t had time to find comments on this one.
I notice I am confused. I've looked around a bit on the website for the "county health rankings" mentioned as the source for the main graphic here, and their data collection for air pollution doesn't appear to do any kind of discrimination between, as it were, natural and artificial sources. I am wondering if the entire thing is heavily confounded by pollen counts or something of the like, which is the only reason coming to mind for why the Illinois-Indiana-Ohio area is apparently the most heavily polluted part of the country.
I live in Indiana. Have for most of my life. It is heavily rural/agricultural outside of the few large cities we have, with little heavy industry, and yet the whole state somehow ends up having more air pollution than some of the largest cities in the nation? It doesn't follow.
Even if everything you say about this particular study is true, there are other reasons to think that gas stoves fundamentally change the indoor climate — and not for the better. We don't have great data on it, because indoor air quality is almost entirely unregulated and wildly under-studied in the U.S. But what few controlled experiments have been done suggest exactly what an ordinary person might expect: open-air gas combustion in the main living space of an enclosed home, often without sufficient ventilation, generates asthma-linked pollution. It's not really that controversial a proposition. (See: https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/indoor-air-quality/is-your-gas-range-a-health-risk-a6971504915/)
Sure, you can argue that the world is full of bigger problems — and I would agree! And the dearth of solid, evidence-based, real-world data is shameful. But if a lucrative wager hinged on whether gas stoves have the potential to worsen childhood asthma, I know where I'd put my money.
Something else missing, especially with stovetop cooking, is that cooking the food itself releases all sort of stuff. If oils are used - same thing. Some oils smoke at lower temperatures than others, yada yada. So all this is *still* present with electric cooking.
Also I’ve traveled all over Latin America. Electric stoves are extremely rare. At least in Mexico this was due to the high costs of electricity. So most households, which previously used wood for cooking (often indoors- and this is still common in other parts of LATAM) use gas stoves. There too dedicated gas lines are fairly rare so gas is delivered via tanker trucks to tanks on the roofs of homes. One would think given all the research there would be something about high childhood asthma rates in these areas.
So, their claim is that the combustion of the gas itself (CH4 + O2 -> CO2 + H2O) results in some NOX emissions as well. What’s the chemical process producing that? I want these clowns to break this down in an easy enough format for someone whose only taken high a high chemistry can understand.
Also worth noting, San Diego on your list last summer as part of their second edition Climate Action Plan will not only require all new construction to be all electric but that the majority of existing buildings be retrofit (regardless of left over service life on these nat gas appliances) to all electric by 2035.
The “science” they cited for part of their justification for this ban goes to websites and links that don’t back their claims.
https://greenleapforward.substack.com/p/lets-go-ban-it
Thank you for bringing sanity to this latest Marxist Deep State issue....
In fairness, this is the same crap they have done for 2 decades with "climate science". One could probably sub in any of the nonsense studies they have pooped out the last decade built on "models" from garbage data.
"Most rural houses have electric stoves, and most rural houses have less particulate pollution, leading to less asthma. " Seriously? Provide data please, or I guess it depends how you define "rural". Because real rural often means nearly fully off the grid, which implies a wood or coal burning stove. And oil, coal, or wood heat. All of which throw off a lot more particulates than a gas stove. And the whole situation can be almost fully resolved if you put in a fan or a range hood in your kitchen that vents to the outside.
You state Indiana is second, but highlighted Illinois.