Surely the US has some interest (as the current world military hegemon) in keeping Russia engaged and weakened, and in having a market in all those green and orange places for its military wares?
That explains the US imo. Idk what explains the UK (unless it's the million Poles here? But most of them don't have a vote so...).
I mean, the Swiss are sort of a special case in these sorts of affairs. They're kind of known for it.
One of the (many) parts that piss me off is how much more people seem to care about Ukraine's border than our own. But I also live in New Mexico, and the "border bill" is aiming to let in somewhere around the entire population of my state every year before they even contemplate putting the brakes on.
And it shows. I realize there are just maaaaaybe a couple of other economic factors involved over the past few years, but my hometown has become significantly more blighted in the last few years. I was *in Mexico* recently and it looked better and less sketchy than Albuquerque.
If I could, I'd Thanos snap my fingers and teleport every last person who came in illegally over the past three years and was still in the country to a coastal blue city, or Denver. Or possibly spread them out amongst the living rooms of all of the people with a "No person is illegal" sign in their yard. The Venn diagram there probably has significant overlap.
I’m mad at Democrats AND Republicans. I don’t want to see ANY of our tax dollars spent there or in Isreal. We have a whole slew of problems in our own country that need those tax dollars. How bout a big aid package for the people in Hawaii after that tragic fire? How bout a big aid package to the people in Ohio after the train wreck that poisoned an entire community and made it basically unlivable. How bout a big aid package to stop all the illegal migrants flooding into our country and stressing our cities. How bout a big aid package to help the veterans of foreign wars. I can keep going. I was always taught that before you take on an endeavor to help someone it’s best to have your own self in order first. Both sides suck.
Jeez, what a breakdown. Sending on to some people who still think we can't let the Ukrainians down when IMO our war dollars are just funding the military machine to our benefit.
Putin (and not Tay-tay) jumped up to endorse Biden (talk about Russian interference) and soured the bromance with Trump, who recently re-assessed Anhauser's finest. I'm curious if the trans activists will align with maga isolationists to push for Ukranian aid provided as cases of Bud Lite.
My baseline assumption about proposed bills is that the real purpose (or at least the effective outcome) is the exact opposite of the official title of the bill. There have been a lot of data points to support my hypothesis. In this case, over 80% of the funding will clearly avoid strengthening the U.S./Mexico border; and the portion "dedicated" to border security merely calls for the administration to study and/or try to close the border. In other words, no action as usual.
Came here for the great 2A content, stayed for the solid writing, interested in this post. First-time caller. This will be tl;dr.
One hundred years ago, my great grandmother fled the Russians as a young girl, or rather, her parents shoved her alone on a boat to America from a country in that box to get away from the hated and expansionist Russians.
So I watched the 2022 invasion of yet another sovereign nation with rage, as I watched it, yes, in 2014, and this time saw the images of streams of refugees looking like my great grandmother. And I totally vibed with a nation suddenly saying, “Hey, maybe Kalashnikovs in every house is a good idea after all when SHTF. Here, Babcia, take one…”
So, inexplicably, I got my average conservative, fat, middle-class ass on a plane and went to help as I could. When I got on the plane back home, I’d never been so proud of being American, based on literally hundreds of conversations and moments about what us being in their corner means. And since I returned, I’ve helped support and get supported things to help their war effort in humanitarian and not-as-humanitarian ways.
So, related to boxes, and I know it’s a side point in your post that just rankles me, not everyone in the “I Stand With Ukraine” box is in the same demographic box, and I can’t help but ponder how many more would join me in the box if the current president simply had an R next to his name, not a D. A lot, I presume.
It's a continuation of a US foreign policy that theoretically didn’t like invasions of sovereign countries where there are strategic interests at play. The interest here being a Europe that is prosperous and peaceful so we can focus on the emerging Pacific dominance and threats. Because it’s not 1789 and pipedreams about just avoiding foreign entanglements don’t really work, in an otherwise sensible libertarian view of “the way things should be.”
To the larger point, I’m fine with fixing our own border disaster AND chewing gum and walking at the same time….giving Ukraine our surplus gear, trying out new technology and approaches in theater, learning how the Russians fight, learning lessons in how war has changed, discovering we can’t make enough artillery shells, making the Russians hurt. We’ve been one of the only grownups in NATO for 70+ years, and it’s always been clear to me that it would always be up to us to defend Europe, across administrations and parties.
It's also clear to me that this may be a coordinated effort to shape a new post-America era, with Russia going in 2022 to juke left, Iran in 2023 to juke right, and the main act by China is 2024 coming for the chin. That concerns me. I can’t imagine how it could not concern anyone.
So, yeah, tl;dr, France and Italy and the rest should step up. As had been the case since 1949. And we should continue to step up, because it matters and future trends will matter more if we don’t. Sorry for the tl;dr. Too much coffee.
There is definitely a part of the funding from canada that is due to the meme, but a second factor is the size of the Ukrainian diaspora in Canada. We have one of if not the largest Ukrainian populations outside of Ukraine.
As an example the Conservative Party voted against a free trade with Ukraine bill recently, and then had to spend a bunch time tripping over themselves to apologize after all the Ukrainians in their base started sending them angry emails.
Important error on your graph: Poland is also adjacent to Russia. Literally, it's adjacent to the Kalingrad exclave. But more importantly, Poland also knows that if there ever is a major war between Russia and Europe, they'll be in the line of fire astride the main invasion route (for both sides) through Belarus.
Seems quite disingenuous to assert that those frustrated at the US's sudden lack of aid are not also upset at the leaders of ostensibly likeminded nations for not sufficiently funding that shared goal. But while an American citizen frustrated at the government of Spain for not holding up their end of the bargain has no recourse, they certainly have a right to give their congressman an earful about it. It shouldn't be surprising that that's where the majority of their attention is directed.
That aside, it's also quite disingenuous to point to the total amount spent since the war began and say that the people who are upset about this sudden cessation of aid to Ukraine are being unreasonable. It's surely not about the amount of aid in total (though I'm sure there's a contingent that is also unhappy about that), but rather the abrupt end of aid that has, according to them, disrupted the ability of the Ukrainians to adequately supply themselves to fight effectively. It's perfectly rational for those angry at the situation to direct their anger at the individuals they see as most responsible for - in their view - sabotaging a critical global security goal, albeit you're certainly correct that they should also be frustrated with the Dems for refusing to concede on other issues that could have potentially helped to reach a deal on this quite some time ago and avoided the disruption.
The questions about "fairness" and proportionality between countries in supporting this shared goal is of course a valid and worthwhile discussion, as have been the concerns about certain NATO countries shirking their responsibility to funding defense, but the sudden use of that narrative to oppose continued aid to Ukraine feels much more like a post-facto justification than a suddenly urgent genuine concern. If it is all in good faith from those house Republicans, and not just papering over a desire to become more isolationist, it would have to be seen as extremely poor judgment on their part to decide to return to that conversation so abruptly and to let it seemingly degrade their own foreign policy objectives.
Let’s hope the House holds the line against this abomination. I won’t hold my breath though, I’m sure there will be a few Republicans who cross the aisle because “we must stand with Ukraine.”
Surely the US has some interest (as the current world military hegemon) in keeping Russia engaged and weakened, and in having a market in all those green and orange places for its military wares?
That explains the US imo. Idk what explains the UK (unless it's the million Poles here? But most of them don't have a vote so...).
Very interesting box.
I mean, the Swiss are sort of a special case in these sorts of affairs. They're kind of known for it.
One of the (many) parts that piss me off is how much more people seem to care about Ukraine's border than our own. But I also live in New Mexico, and the "border bill" is aiming to let in somewhere around the entire population of my state every year before they even contemplate putting the brakes on.
And it shows. I realize there are just maaaaaybe a couple of other economic factors involved over the past few years, but my hometown has become significantly more blighted in the last few years. I was *in Mexico* recently and it looked better and less sketchy than Albuquerque.
If I could, I'd Thanos snap my fingers and teleport every last person who came in illegally over the past three years and was still in the country to a coastal blue city, or Denver. Or possibly spread them out amongst the living rooms of all of the people with a "No person is illegal" sign in their yard. The Venn diagram there probably has significant overlap.
I’m mad at Democrats AND Republicans. I don’t want to see ANY of our tax dollars spent there or in Isreal. We have a whole slew of problems in our own country that need those tax dollars. How bout a big aid package for the people in Hawaii after that tragic fire? How bout a big aid package to the people in Ohio after the train wreck that poisoned an entire community and made it basically unlivable. How bout a big aid package to stop all the illegal migrants flooding into our country and stressing our cities. How bout a big aid package to help the veterans of foreign wars. I can keep going. I was always taught that before you take on an endeavor to help someone it’s best to have your own self in order first. Both sides suck.
Jeez, what a breakdown. Sending on to some people who still think we can't let the Ukrainians down when IMO our war dollars are just funding the military machine to our benefit.
That’s a hell of a stretch
It’s almost like these European countries are glorified satrapies or something…
Putin (and not Tay-tay) jumped up to endorse Biden (talk about Russian interference) and soured the bromance with Trump, who recently re-assessed Anhauser's finest. I'm curious if the trans activists will align with maga isolationists to push for Ukranian aid provided as cases of Bud Lite.
My baseline assumption about proposed bills is that the real purpose (or at least the effective outcome) is the exact opposite of the official title of the bill. There have been a lot of data points to support my hypothesis. In this case, over 80% of the funding will clearly avoid strengthening the U.S./Mexico border; and the portion "dedicated" to border security merely calls for the administration to study and/or try to close the border. In other words, no action as usual.
Came here for the great 2A content, stayed for the solid writing, interested in this post. First-time caller. This will be tl;dr.
One hundred years ago, my great grandmother fled the Russians as a young girl, or rather, her parents shoved her alone on a boat to America from a country in that box to get away from the hated and expansionist Russians.
So I watched the 2022 invasion of yet another sovereign nation with rage, as I watched it, yes, in 2014, and this time saw the images of streams of refugees looking like my great grandmother. And I totally vibed with a nation suddenly saying, “Hey, maybe Kalashnikovs in every house is a good idea after all when SHTF. Here, Babcia, take one…”
So, inexplicably, I got my average conservative, fat, middle-class ass on a plane and went to help as I could. When I got on the plane back home, I’d never been so proud of being American, based on literally hundreds of conversations and moments about what us being in their corner means. And since I returned, I’ve helped support and get supported things to help their war effort in humanitarian and not-as-humanitarian ways.
So, related to boxes, and I know it’s a side point in your post that just rankles me, not everyone in the “I Stand With Ukraine” box is in the same demographic box, and I can’t help but ponder how many more would join me in the box if the current president simply had an R next to his name, not a D. A lot, I presume.
It's a continuation of a US foreign policy that theoretically didn’t like invasions of sovereign countries where there are strategic interests at play. The interest here being a Europe that is prosperous and peaceful so we can focus on the emerging Pacific dominance and threats. Because it’s not 1789 and pipedreams about just avoiding foreign entanglements don’t really work, in an otherwise sensible libertarian view of “the way things should be.”
To the larger point, I’m fine with fixing our own border disaster AND chewing gum and walking at the same time….giving Ukraine our surplus gear, trying out new technology and approaches in theater, learning how the Russians fight, learning lessons in how war has changed, discovering we can’t make enough artillery shells, making the Russians hurt. We’ve been one of the only grownups in NATO for 70+ years, and it’s always been clear to me that it would always be up to us to defend Europe, across administrations and parties.
It's also clear to me that this may be a coordinated effort to shape a new post-America era, with Russia going in 2022 to juke left, Iran in 2023 to juke right, and the main act by China is 2024 coming for the chin. That concerns me. I can’t imagine how it could not concern anyone.
So, yeah, tl;dr, France and Italy and the rest should step up. As had been the case since 1949. And we should continue to step up, because it matters and future trends will matter more if we don’t. Sorry for the tl;dr. Too much coffee.
There is definitely a part of the funding from canada that is due to the meme, but a second factor is the size of the Ukrainian diaspora in Canada. We have one of if not the largest Ukrainian populations outside of Ukraine.
As an example the Conservative Party voted against a free trade with Ukraine bill recently, and then had to spend a bunch time tripping over themselves to apologize after all the Ukrainians in their base started sending them angry emails.
Important error on your graph: Poland is also adjacent to Russia. Literally, it's adjacent to the Kalingrad exclave. But more importantly, Poland also knows that if there ever is a major war between Russia and Europe, they'll be in the line of fire astride the main invasion route (for both sides) through Belarus.
Seems quite disingenuous to assert that those frustrated at the US's sudden lack of aid are not also upset at the leaders of ostensibly likeminded nations for not sufficiently funding that shared goal. But while an American citizen frustrated at the government of Spain for not holding up their end of the bargain has no recourse, they certainly have a right to give their congressman an earful about it. It shouldn't be surprising that that's where the majority of their attention is directed.
That aside, it's also quite disingenuous to point to the total amount spent since the war began and say that the people who are upset about this sudden cessation of aid to Ukraine are being unreasonable. It's surely not about the amount of aid in total (though I'm sure there's a contingent that is also unhappy about that), but rather the abrupt end of aid that has, according to them, disrupted the ability of the Ukrainians to adequately supply themselves to fight effectively. It's perfectly rational for those angry at the situation to direct their anger at the individuals they see as most responsible for - in their view - sabotaging a critical global security goal, albeit you're certainly correct that they should also be frustrated with the Dems for refusing to concede on other issues that could have potentially helped to reach a deal on this quite some time ago and avoided the disruption.
The questions about "fairness" and proportionality between countries in supporting this shared goal is of course a valid and worthwhile discussion, as have been the concerns about certain NATO countries shirking their responsibility to funding defense, but the sudden use of that narrative to oppose continued aid to Ukraine feels much more like a post-facto justification than a suddenly urgent genuine concern. If it is all in good faith from those house Republicans, and not just papering over a desire to become more isolationist, it would have to be seen as extremely poor judgment on their part to decide to return to that conversation so abruptly and to let it seemingly degrade their own foreign policy objectives.
China and Taiwan can finally agree on something.
Intellectual consistency is like hypocrisy; it starts with the often false assumption that the other person is intelligent enough to be capable of it.
Let’s hope the House holds the line against this abomination. I won’t hold my breath though, I’m sure there will be a few Republicans who cross the aisle because “we must stand with Ukraine.”