The problem with relying solely on rational thought is that it is limited by the boundaries of human logic. I am a member of the Church of a Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. My post here is not an official statement of the church, but I am comfortable with my interpretations. If any other member of the Church disagrees with me, I am al…
The problem with relying solely on rational thought is that it is limited by the boundaries of human logic. I am a member of the Church of a Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. My post here is not an official statement of the church, but I am comfortable with my interpretations. If any other member of the Church disagrees with me, I am always willing to learn from competent sources.
We know that God loves all of His children and seeks to gather them back to Him. But everyone has absolute freedom of choice, so that goal is frustrated by any number of us making poor decisions. Those poor decisions lead to their own punishment in life, and restrictions on a person’s eternal growth. Does the Bible describe individuals and groups suffering horrible fates? Yup. But I would ask anyone using those instances to declare that Yahweh is vengeful to look at the run-up to those events. Mercy cannot trump justice.
Atheist-ish observation on the term "sin": it definitely appears to correlate strongly with "behaviors that feel good/tempting in the moment, but will cause/risk harm in the long run, either to the sinner or to the society they live in". This was not obviously the intended meaning to me growing up: it came across as "thing we adults incorrectly think is bad", probably as a result of which media I was exposed to, plus nobody actually explaining the term.
I mean, there's tons of examples of God being vengeful on people who disobeyed his rules - based on God's assumption that God has the moral authority to make and enforce God's rules.
But can you say, really, that god's vengeance on people who were, like, really into butt-stuff *was justified*? Not if you think people own themselves, are autonomous, and can decide their own purpose. That's something you do for property that is misbehaving.
When people get so into butt-stuff that roving groups of them insist on doing it to any unsuspecting male who passes through their town, I do think some divine vengeance is warranted.
The problem with relying solely on rational thought is that it is limited by the boundaries of human logic. I am a member of the Church of a Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. My post here is not an official statement of the church, but I am comfortable with my interpretations. If any other member of the Church disagrees with me, I am always willing to learn from competent sources.
We know that God loves all of His children and seeks to gather them back to Him. But everyone has absolute freedom of choice, so that goal is frustrated by any number of us making poor decisions. Those poor decisions lead to their own punishment in life, and restrictions on a person’s eternal growth. Does the Bible describe individuals and groups suffering horrible fates? Yup. But I would ask anyone using those instances to declare that Yahweh is vengeful to look at the run-up to those events. Mercy cannot trump justice.
Atheist-ish observation on the term "sin": it definitely appears to correlate strongly with "behaviors that feel good/tempting in the moment, but will cause/risk harm in the long run, either to the sinner or to the society they live in". This was not obviously the intended meaning to me growing up: it came across as "thing we adults incorrectly think is bad", probably as a result of which media I was exposed to, plus nobody actually explaining the term.
Soddom and Gommoragh.
The Flood
I mean, there's tons of examples of God being vengeful on people who disobeyed his rules - based on God's assumption that God has the moral authority to make and enforce God's rules.
But can you say, really, that god's vengeance on people who were, like, really into butt-stuff *was justified*? Not if you think people own themselves, are autonomous, and can decide their own purpose. That's something you do for property that is misbehaving.
When people get so into butt-stuff that roving groups of them insist on doing it to any unsuspecting male who passes through their town, I do think some divine vengeance is warranted.
Don't get me wrong here - I'd still prefer to live in a Mormon theocracy than in any of the atheist states that have existed.